关于液体钙 (讨论到如何防止骨质疏松)

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-24 14:36

我婆婆有比较严重的骨质疏松(脊椎都已经呈"S"型)，所以对补钙药物一直很关注。

现在她是在服用一种治疗(或者说减缓)骨质疏松的处方药(Fosamax), 同时补充一般的over-the-counter的加V-D的钙片。

但是每年的骨密度检查显示骨质疏松在加重之中。

她最近听人推荐液体钙(ABSORBABLE CALCIUM SOFTGELS with VITAMIN D)，让我们打听。我查了一下，加拿大似乎没有卖的。唯一只能去美国买，或者在网上邮购 -- 加上运费入关税，小贵。

我想请教懂行的大家 -- 这个液体钙确实会有显著疗效么? 尤其在已经服用处方药的情况下? 多谢!!!

silkworm · Post by **silkworm** » 2006-07-24 14:57

The physical property of calcium (liquid/solid) matters less than its chemical property (calcium carbonate/citrate/phosphate/etc.)

Absorption efficiency appears to vary with the different calcium complexes. In one study, absorption efficiency from a 250 milligram dose of calcium citrate malate was found to be 35%; from calcium carbonate, 27%; and from tricalcium phosphate, 25%. For comparison, calcium absorption efficiency from milk was found to be 29%. Some, but not all, studies suggest that calcium is more efficiently absorbed from calcium citrate and calcium citrate malate than it is from calcium carbonate. The efficiency of absorption of calcium from a calcium supplement is greatest when calcium is taken at doses of 500 milligrams or lower. Individuals with achlorhydria absorb calcium from calcium carbonate poorly unless the calcium carbonate supplement is taken with food. Calcium that is unabsorbed from the intestine is excreted in the feces.

As far as I know, SOME of the so-called liquid calcium for better absorption is simply a suspension (not a solution!) of calcium carbonate.

Generally the organic forms of calcium, such as calcium citrate mentioned above, plus calcium gluconate and calcium lactate, are soluble in water, thus better absorbed. However, since the molecular weight of the acid part is heavy, the resulting tablets are usually big. And the prices are higher, esp. for calcium gluconate and calcium lactate.

Here is an article on calcium supplements: http://www.florahealth.com/flora/home/u ... icle56.asp

tiffany · Post by **tiffany** » 2006-07-24 15:00

calcium lactate？为哈不直接喝牛奶补之？浓度不够高？

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-24 15:03

我也一直觉得，多喝牛奶多吃奶质品不就行了么。但是。。。我婆婆不喝牛奶更不吃cheese。

蚕博这段话，我正在好好消化中。

"However, it important to realize that all liquid supplements are not solutions, many are suspensions. A solution means the minerals are dissolved in the liquid, which is what gives it its enhanced absorption. However, in a suspension the minerals are not dissolved and are just sitting in the liquid, which provides no greater absorption than a capsule. A suspension-based calcium supplement will appear all white with clear fluid at the top whereas a solution-based calcium supplement will be uniform in color and consistency. "

这段看来是关键 -- 不知道药瓶上会不会表明是suspension-based 还是solution-based? 如果我们必须邮购，没有说明的话就不好分辨了。

silkworm · Post by **silkworm** » 2006-07-24 15:34

Look for the chemical description (what kind of calcium).
If it does not tell, it is probably calcium carbonate, such as ground oyster shell

.

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-24 15:45

这个我在Costco注意过，最便宜的那种钙片就是oyster shell. 大大的字写在瓶子上。

火星狗 · Post by **火星狗** » 2006-07-24 16:03

我的理解是有机钙就可以（calcium citrate, calcium gluconate & calcium lactate）,是片剂还是溶剂倒不太重要，反正到了肚子里会溶解。如果是碳酸钙，那就比较惨。不过这位老太太要求的“液体钙”有点奇怪，同时添加了vitamin D，倒像是促进无机钙吸收的。
以前家养母鸡都要吃一点磨碎的蛋壳粉，好不下软壳蛋，大概就和oyster shell补钙的原理差不多。

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-24 17:31

一般认为calcium lactate, gluconate, citrate的吸收比例高于calcium carbonate，不过你加大碳酸钙的每日剂量也就补过来了。至于液体固体的，我没听说过有什么差别，估计跟＂百傲钙＂之类的产品差不多，只是促销手段罢了。钙质的问题是第一在肠胃里吸收率低，加了维他命D能帮助吸收。第二是身体本身不停地从骨头里放钙出去，然后从肾脏排泄出去，挡也挡不住，所以同时要吃Fosamax 或者 Alendronate这类药，减缓骨头放钙的速度。不过，如果一个人年纪大了，骨质疏松已经严重了，至多只能不让钙质的流失继续加速（如果不补钙吃药就会越来越快），要想reverse原来的损失很难，几乎没什么显著的恢复。到目前为止，还没有特效治疗方法。

骨质疏松不是一天两天的过程，从女人停经之前就已经开始。现在不提倡用人工补充女性激素了（hormone replacement therapy)，那是防止骨质疏松效果最明显的药，不过其他风险增加，得不尝失。所以中年女性在三十岁开始就要锻炼身体，负重性锻炼（包括走路跑步），能防止钙质的流失，补钙也很重要，等查出来骨密度低就已经晚了。

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-24 19:12

Also, depending on her doctor's advice, your mother-in-law should take about 1500 mg of calcium per day (the salt is not that imporant). One disadvantage of calcium carbonate is that it stimulates stomach acid secretion and make aggrevate upset stomach in sensitive people.

A large proportion of Asian and Caucasian women are genetically predisposed to osteoporosis and thus have higher risk than most black women, although black women have higher risk of vitamin D deficiency.

orangetabby · Post by **orangetabby** » 2006-07-24 19:30

I always thought I was taught in college that since milk also has high phosphate content that it's not necessary a good source of calcium. Phosphate competes with calcium for Vitamin D binding sites.

Any comments on this?

I also was taught for sure that calcium coupled with glucose can be injected ( don't remember the route but it can't be i.v. obviously )and is far superior than oral supplement. The OB/GYN doctors always talk about how easy it is to use this to treat pregnant woman with calcium deficiency. But I rarely see this in practice.

aloe · Post by **aloe** » 2006-07-24 19:32

我给妈妈买了这个：Schiff Glusosamine ＋MSM1500mg ，说明每粒含维骨力（氢氯化葡萄糖胺） 1500mg和有机硫MSM 1500mg，据说对关节好，刚开始吃，希望有用，我妈吃钙片就胃疼，而且钙片对关节效果似乎不大。

海阔天空 · Post by **海阔天空** » 2006-07-24 20:55

我记得骨质疏松是因为骨头没有负重，所以会自然流失钙，比如宇航员在太空时间长了（1年），就会有明显的骨质疏松。骨质疏松不是因为钙不够，而是因为钙流失。所以最好的方法就是一直有负重锻炼。当然补钙也应该，但一边补，一边流失，不会有好效果。不要担心骨质疏松不能负重，重要是不能折。

silkworm · Post by **silkworm** » 2006-07-24 21:04

（终于能输中文了）

嗯，美国这边是鼓励中老年妇女举重（weight lifting）的，不是竞技比赛那样，是练静力，在gym里有教练看着练。我们实验室原来一个老实验员每周举重两次。

碳酸钙，要吃饭的时候吃，有胃酸才溶解。总的来说钙片吃的剂量大，都会影响肠胃功能，有的甚至造成涨气、便秘。

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-25 6:41

http://arthritis.about.com/od/nutrition ... orosis.htm

http://http://www.mayoclinic.com/health ... is/DS00128

Milk has high phosphate content? Hmm... I had no idea. I don't think so. There is argument that high protein intake would increase calcium excretion. So Atkins dieters should be aware.

I have heard of no recommendations against diary products for calcium supplementation. If you like it, milk and cheese are a good source of calcium.

Weight-bearing exercise include not only lifting weights but also stair climbing, running, and walking. I find weight lifting incredibly boring myself, but some people love it.

[quote]要吃饭的时候吃，有胃酸才溶解 Theoretically it's true, but actually ... thritis.

aloe · Post by **aloe** » 2006-07-25 7:20

谁能说说氢氯化葡萄糖胺和有机硫是什么道理呢，还有说补充胶原蛋白对关节也好，是真的吗？多谢了。

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-25 7:37

Never heard of either 氢氯化葡萄糖胺和有机硫. English names?

胶原蛋白 is theoretically no different from any protein.

orangetabby · Post by **orangetabby** » 2006-07-25 9:17

check out this website for everything we need to know about milk.
http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/dairyedu/chem.html

This is the part that's relevant to the calcium and phosphorus discussion.

Minerals
All 22 minerals considered to be essential to the human diet are present in milk. These include three families of salts:
Sodium (Na), Potassium (K) and Chloride (Cl):These free ions are negatively correlated to lactose to maintain osmotic equilibrium of milk with blood.
Calcium (Ca), Magnesium (Mg), Inorganic Phosphorous (P(i)), and Citrate: This group consists of 2/3 of the Ca, 1/3 of the Mg, 1/2 of the P(i), and less than 1/10 of the citrate in colloidal (nondiffusible) form and present in the casein micelle.
Diffusible salts of Ca, Mg, citrate, and phosphate: These salts are very pH dependent and contribute to the overall acid-base equilibrium of milk.
The mineral content of fresh milk is given below:

Mineral Content per litre
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sodium (mg) 350-900
Potassium (mg) 1100-1700
Chloride (mg) 900-1100
Calcium (mg) 1100-1300
Magnesium (mg) 90-140
Phosphorus (mg) 900-1000
Iron (ug) 300-600
Zinc (ug) 2000-6000
Copper (ug) 100-600
Manganese (ug) 20-50
Iodine (ug) 260
Fluoride (ug) 30-220
Selenium (ug) 5-67
Cobalt (ug) 0.5-1.3
Chromium (ug) 8-13
Molybdenum (ug) 18-120
Nickel (ug) 0-50
Silicon (ug) 750-7000
Vanadium (ug) tr-310
Tin (ug) 40-500
Arsenic (ug) 20-60

Structure: The Casein Micelle
Most, but not all, of the casein proteins exist in a colloidal particle known as the casein micelle. Its biological function is to carry large amounts of highly insoluble CaP to mammalian young in liquid form and to form a clot in the stomach for more efficient nutrition. Besides casein protein, calcium and phosphate, the micelle also contains citrate, minor ions, lipase and plasmin enzymes, and entrapped milk serum. These micelles are rather porous structures, occupying about 4 ml/g and 6-12% of the total volume fraction of milk.
The "casein sub-micelle" model has been prominent for the last several years, and is illustrated and described with the following link, but there is not universal acceptance of this model, and mounting research evidence to suggest that there is not a defined sub-micellar structure to the micelle at all. Another model of a more open structure is also defined with the following link.

In the submicelle model, it is thought that there are small aggregates of whole casein, containing 10 to 100 casein molecules, called submicelles. It is thought that there are two different kinds of submicelle; with and without kappa-casein. These submicelles contain a hydrophobic core and are covered by a hydrophilic coat which is at least partly comprised of the polar moieties of kappa-casein. The hydrophilic CMP of the kappa-casein exists as a flexible hair.

The open model also suggests there are more dense and less dense regions within the midelle, but there is less of a well-defined structure. In this model, calcium phosphate nanoclusters bind caseins and provide for the differences in density within the casein micelle.

Casein Micelle Structure 17 KB

Colloidal calcium phosphate (CCP) acts as a cement between the hundreds or even thousands of submicelles that form the casein micelle. Binding may be covalent or electrostatic. Submicelles rich in kappa-casein occupy a surface position, whereas those with less are buried in the interior. The resulting hairy layer, at least 7 nm thick, acts to prohibit further aggregation of submicelles by steric repulsion. The casein micelles are not static; there are three dynamic equilibria between the micelle and its surroundings:

the free casein molecules and submicelles
the free submicelles and micelles
the dissoved colloidal calcium and phosphate
The following factors must be considered when assessing the stability of the casein micelle:
Role of Ca++:
More than 90% of the calcium content of skim milk is associated in some way or another with the casein micelle. The removal of Ca++ leads to reversible dissociation of

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-25 9:30

Oh, well, I must fall slept in class and made it all up.

OK. I was wrong. You were right. No need to be offended by someone who said something incorrect.

An article about phosphorous and bone.

http://nutrition.tufts.edu/research/jhc ... bones.html

So I maintain the position that milk is good for the bone, so far as I know, until it is prove otherwise...

orangetabby · Post by **orangetabby** » 2006-07-25 10:07

That wasn't referring to you but to the textbook thing.

I've talked to at least a dozen people about this already and everybody gave me a blank face. Those are the people who sat through the same class with me and prepared the same biochemistry exam with the same damn textbook. After that, one do wonder what happened back in those crazy college years.

I am not saying milk is not good for bone health. I had this impression long time ago and just want to have a discussion about it. That's why I would like to invite comments.

I am not in the position to prove myself right and other people wrong. Granted, I am wrong more than right. That has proven time after time. LOL.

I hope I didn't offend you. I realy did not mean to. I am one of you biggest fans.

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-25 10:17

太谢谢大家了

我用非专业的话总结一下 --
1。不管预防还是治疗骨质疏松，重要的是锻炼；
2。补钙的药品大同小异，从cost effective角度上来讲这个液体钙不一定是上选。

此外，我本人信奉两点 --
1。凡药皆毒；
2。药补不如食补。

现在各种OTC supplement满天飞。我婆婆现在吃的就有 -- 多维，calcium supplement，ginko biloba, lectin, glusosamine. 我稍稍有点担心，因为我记得很多年前读到过文章说有些supplement跟其它的药(比如高血压药)一起吃会有副作用。但是，obviously, 没有人run clinical trail去仔细验证。

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-25 10:19

I hope I didn't offend you. I realy did not mean to. I am one of you biggest fans.

No no. I was not offended. I was certainly wrong about milk and phosphorous, and I'd be the first one to admit it. Live and learn.

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-25 10:32

这个防止骨质疏松的话题，我这个奔四的人也很关心；希望大家接着讨论呢。

orangetabby说的牛奶的问题，我还真没有听说过。以前跟学生物女友讨论补钙，似乎一致建议都是多喝牛奶多吃奶制品强过吃任何钙片。好象还有种说法是豆奶在补钙方面不如牛奶，不知对不对。

另一个问题: 如果每天喝一大杯牛奶，也吃酸奶，可以不吃钙片么? 我本人比较担心结石。

蚕说的这个练静力，是指用那些gym里面的机器挨个挨个练么? 我有限几次去gym, 都是跳过那些要拉啊举的，实在觉得boring. 还有，没时间上gym, 自己在家拿个小哑铃举举算么? 家里似乎是有个exercise bench, 一堆哑铃，我应该请教行家弄一两个动作自己练练。

我现在唯一能坚持的锻炼是上班爬楼梯，不过我办公室在四楼。

对了，最合格的锻炼估计是出去散步，最后得抱着猪猪走几步 -- 三十磅，估计是够负重标准了。

赶紧去看看JUN推荐的那个MAYO网站去。

water · Post by **water** » 2006-07-25 10:57

Schiff Glusosamine ＋MSM1500mg

这个很不错。我妈妈以前关节处疼痛，牙齿也越来越稀疏，我们都以为是缺钙。吃了好些钙片没有用，后来我买了这个，本来也没有抱太大希望，没想到吃了一个多月就开始见效了。后来一直坚持。不过我妈妈属于做事特别认真的人，她真是一天不拉的按我叮嘱她的服用。我本来觉得部分是她心理作用，后来我姑妈的腿关节也是疼痛，不能弯曲，我妈妈就试着让她吃这个，也有效果。

boat · Post by **boat** » 2006-07-25 11:17

我举手说我喝过液体钙，原因是因为我和我们这里一个年纪大的妇女同志说我每天早晨起床伸懒腰时腿必定会抽筋；结果人家肯定地说我缺钙，送了我一瓶液体钙，还是organic的，挺贵，可惜瓶子我留了一段时间后扔了，不记得上面说什么了。喝一瓶肯定是不起作用的，现在我每天依然抽筋。
我喝的那瓶需要喝之前晃均匀，否则底部沉淀一些白色的东西，味道倒是满好的。 costco 买的钙片我也吃过，还是照样抽筋。
锻炼我是尽量做的，不过，我就走走路，医生说要刺激骨头，比如做下蹲运动，这样才能刺激钙的产生。
关于牛奶是否补钙，告诉我喝牛奶补钙的都是医生，告诉我牛奶不补钙的都是病人，像我这样的病人，我觉得牛奶不补钙；因为我印象很深，我小时候被逼喝奶，每次我都觉得要吐了，不管我多难受，家长就是不让我停止喝奶；但我必须承认出国后俺不喝奶了，但喝酸奶，一切照旧，抽筋没见一点儿改变，小时候我就容易抽筋的。

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-25 11:29

下蹲起立多做会不会对膝关节不好? 我老每次做都听见喀喀喀喀的声音 (我MS有轻微风湿性关节炎)，就不敢做了。

还有aerobic里面high impact的东东，现在也不敢做了。

抽筋似乎就是缺钙的标志? 起码怀孕时如果抽筋，就是需要补钙的sign.

酸奶是有多种好处的，我现在每天做smoothie时加几大勺，买那种plain的不加水果的最好。

tiffany · Post by **tiffany** » 2006-07-25 11:42

健身房有器械练的。不过据说姿势正确不会受伤。

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-25 12:10

不过据说姿势正确不会受伤。

The way I read the above sentence was -- 姿势不正确会受伤。

看来有个personal trainer确实很有必要。

tiffany · Post by **tiffany** » 2006-07-25 12:14

主要是注意重心放在脚后跟上，下蹲的时候膝盖不要超过脚腕儿。要点其实就是撅屁股。
疲劳了要休息，姿势拿不准的时候最容易受伤

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-25 12:23

我上YOGA课每次到有下蹲pose的时候老师就常需要纠正我的alignment, 其中就有这个膝盖不能过脚腕儿的问题，我至今觉得纠正起来很费劲 (可恶的习惯!)，所以有几个姿势不在课上自己还不敢轻易做。

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-25 12:26

To preserve bone density, one of the most effective method is running.

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-25 12:36

很惭愧地说，同样因为膝盖问题，我很多年前就冠冕堂皇地放弃跑步了。

记得那时去一个running club, 里面友情提示，长跑要防止膝盖受伤，很重要的是要选择合适的running shoes，要去专门店让人用仪器测试你跑步的姿势(比如是习惯往右偏还是往左/内偏)，然后配相应的鞋子; 而且建议每半年就更换一次跑鞋。听了以后我马上捏着我的钱包打退堂鼓。

后来跟人交流，倒是听过一种说法 -- running is a sports one could rarely keep up for longer than 20-years. i.e. many have to give up because of various injuries.

我一个coauthor长年看心理医生，得到的忠告就是 -- for your mental health, keep running. 他至今即使出差也坚持每天跑上几个迈。

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-25 12:46

If you have knee injury, walking is a not-bad substitute for running, but it's not as effective, and you need to put in more time. It is also important to get good walking shoes to avoid ankle and knee injury.

Still, I am an advocate for drug treatment when it is necessary. Taking up exercise does not mean you can avoid medicine altogether. Of course, many people prefer not to take medicine unless to avoid surgery. And even the best medicines are no substitute for exercise. But, just want to let people know that treatments are available to be combined with lifestyle efforts. In real life, nobody can always exercise, eat well, and live forever. Your mileage may vary. And there is also genetics... Life is complicated. There is no magic cure.

boat · Post by **boat** » 2006-07-25 12:46

我的膝盖蹲的时候也咯咯响！我太高兴T和我一样了，嗯，这个听上去有点儿幸灾乐祸的，不过，我不是啦，就是有人和我一样我多少放了点儿心。
我觉得已经缺钙了就补不回来了，因为我很努力地补，但真不见效；所以，还是预防吧。

tiffany · Post by **tiffany** » 2006-07-25 12:48

说起来跑步，星期六健身课没地儿，我乃跑步去了。跑出来一身汗，我一边抹一边儿想这个燃烧反应产品是水加二氧化碳加热量，就是不知道原料是否肚皮上的油。

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-25 12:52

呃， BOAT难友，你的膝盖也是比天气预报还准么?

如果是，那我也要幸灾乐祸地说"耶!"了。

Jun, 关于治疗骨质疏松，我婆婆和妈妈都在吃Fosamax；我妈妈吃Fosamax以后效果不错，但是我婆婆情况仍然不好。这边医生似乎也提不出更好的治疗办法。

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-25 12:54

白金，我觉得YOGA是以比跑步柔和得多的方式，把肚皮上的油神秘地化掉。

当然，不管什么方式，如何坚持都是我最大的头疼。

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-25 13:39

I guess your mother-in-law could try a few other more potent treatments, like Forteo injection or calcitonin injection, or even estrogen, depending on her other disease risks. Drug therapy does have side effects. Perhaps her osteoporosis is too severe and advanced to be reversed at this point. For her, another concern is prevention of falls. She is prone to fractures and even a minor fall make break her hip bone. Hip fracture is very very unpleasant and slow to heal in osteoporosis patients. Nevertheless she should continue to take calcium, vit. D supplement and walk if she can.

To boat: Depending on how serious and frequent your leg cramps are, it may not be caused by calcium deficiency. I'm not a physician and you should have a thorough check-up with experts. It may be Restless Leg Syndrome or intermittent claudication -- who knows.

Actually, looking at the title of the post, I thought, hey! Milk is exactly ORGANIC, LIQUID calcium (plus phosphate and protein and other stuff). If you don't like milk or cheese, ice cream or cheesecake is just as good. Otherwise, orange juice or soy milk FORTIFIED with CALCIUM serve the same purpose. Read the food label.

火星狗 · Post by **火星狗** » 2006-07-25 14:01

ice cream or cheesecake is just as good.

这个方子真是让人愉快。

如果的确有某种严重的健康问题，改变饮食习惯或者生活习惯有时候是很必要的。tuscany的婆婆当初在医院检查骨质疏松的时候，医生有没有给出这方面的建议？另外这个“液体钙”是医生的推荐还是某个病友根据自身的个案给出的意见？
不过我小小小声的说一句，既然是婆婆，还是先把“液体钙”找到再说，然后再灌输其他科学观念，而且这个液体钙显然比钙片好。
从这个帖子里学到很多知识，谢谢各位。

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-25 14:15

如果天气允许，我婆婆每天晚饭后散步一个小时，锻炼方便她应该算是比较注意的了。饮食方便，她除了不喝牛奶，似乎也没有什么其它毛病。谢谢JUN的提醒，我们确实比较担心她摔跤；这边冬天又长，所以一般下大雪的时候她都会小心不出门; 这个问题现在还不影响她的日常生活 (她今年66)，但是再过几年估计会比较麻烦。你提到的其它治疗方法，我会让婆婆去询问她的家庭医生。再次谢谢。

我妈妈早些时候是在服用estrogen, 近年考虑到有关estrogen可能增加诸如breast cancer可能，还是停了。

这个液体钙是一个亲戚从美国带了一瓶给婆婆，告诉她这个"特别好"。没有听说这边医生特别推荐。火星狗，你的小小小声建议我心领神会

；调研是我做，具体如何自然是由我家猪去跟她仔细商量。

silkworm · Post by **silkworm** » 2006-07-25 14:33

给指着用奶酪、冰淇淋补钙的小朋友们泼点凉水：
补钙同时也得有维生素D。

One cup of vitamin D fortified milk supplies about one-fourth of the estimated daily need for this vitamin for adults. Although milk is fortified with vitamin D, dairy products made from milk such as cheese, yogurt, and ice cream are generally not fortified with vitamin D.

火星狗 · Post by **火星狗** » 2006-07-25 14:52

专家提醒，吃着奶酪、冰激凌补钙的同时，别忘了补充vitamin D!反正vitamin D没有溶解性的问题，直接吞小药片都行。
而且那科普文章上不是说第三个钙吸收区域吸收了50%的钙，而且不需要vitamin D的协同作用（难道我是唯一去读链接的认真小朋友？）。我的理解是第二个钙吸收区域是主动吸收，需要vitamin D的转运作用。第三个钙吸收区域是被动区域，只要浓度足够大（在不得结石的前提下）就可以。

boat · Post by **boat** » 2006-07-25 19:43

看到一篇我以为好的关于补钙的文章，这是LINK
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... lcium.html

它的观点：
Despite the debates surrounding milk and calcium, one thing is clear: adequate calcium - both for bone development and for non-bone functions - is key to reducing the risk of osteoporosis. However, the healthiest or safest amount of dietary calcium hasn't yet been established. Different scientific approaches have yielded different estimates, so it's important to consider all the evidence.
声明我因为不相信奶补钙，所以，比较感兴趣这个LINK的观点，其实就是多听多看多观察多吃各类食物啦。
JUN 说的我好多词都不认识，等我查完了再来说吧。

aloe · Post by **aloe** » 2006-07-26 8:32

water wrote:
Schiff Glusosamine ＋MSM1500mg
这个很不错。我妈妈以前关节处疼痛，牙齿也越来越稀疏，我们都以为是缺钙。吃了好些钙片没有用，后来我买了这个，本来也没有抱太大希望，没想到吃了一个多月就开始见效了。后来一直坚持。不过我妈妈属于做事特别认真的人，她真是一天不拉的按我叮嘱她的服用。我本来觉得部分是她心理作用，后来我姑妈的腿关节也是疼痛，不能弯曲，我妈妈就试着让她吃这个，也有效果。

太好了，我四川回来差不多半个多月，就可以听到好消息了

另外推荐一个GNC的越桔精华，GNC Nature's Fingerprint Bilberry 500mg，我眼睛整天对着电脑，又干又涩，吃了这个明显舒服很多，比以前德国带来的吃眼睛的胶囊管用很多。我妈夏天有眼睛模糊的毛病，吃了这个也说好很多，现在就早上起来有点糊，过一会儿就好了

我现在就开始吃，希望以后能延缓这种症状

这里大多数人都在美国，买起来比我方便多啦

silkworm · Post by **silkworm** » 2006-07-26 8:45

aloe wrote:比以前德国带来的吃眼睛的胶囊管用很多。

这个说法有点恐怖哦。

我婆婆有一只眼睛因为“老年性视网膜黄斑变性”，几乎失明，做了手术防止进一步恶化。术后，我们买了叶黄素(lutein)给她服用，貌似还有些效果，视力小有回升。

叶黄素是黄斑（眼睛感光成像部位）的重要成分。而人体不能合成叶黄素，只能从食物中获取。年纪大了，应该补点叶黄素，不吃药片，也需要注意一下食物（深绿色蔬菜等）。

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-26 14:19

问个可能风马牛不相及的问题 -- 这个叶黄素，对老年人白内障有用么?

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2006-07-26 14:20

As far as I know -- no.

silkworm · Post by **silkworm** » 2006-07-26 14:34

我也觉得是没用。白内障是晶状体里的一些蛋白质老化/变性了，沉淀，于是就浑浊了。叶黄素只跟眼底的黄斑有关。

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-26 14:36

我外婆有白内障，医生建议手术，但是我们觉得她都九十岁的人了，手术还是能不做就不做。

白内障有预防办法么?

silkworm · Post by **silkworm** » 2006-07-26 14:40

我知道两条，防紫外线（戴墨镜），防糖尿病。

我发现我不是不象遥控坐诊的冒牌老中医的。

tuscany · Post by **tuscany** » 2006-07-26 14:45

遥谢Dr. 蚕。

说到这里想起自己一件郁闷事情了，N年前申请visa卡，当时刚刚拿到博士，尚出于新鲜状态，一时兴起把title选成了Dr. -- 偏偏那个title是印在卡上的。从此，常常在超市里有好奇心杀死猫的cashier大声问我 "You are a doctor? What kind of doctor?"